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Author Topic: Talk to me about the Thoth  (Read 609 times)

Delizt

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Talk to me about the Thoth
« on: July 11, 2017, 04:08:50 PM »
I have a beautiful Thoth deck...I look at it from time to time, I may even trim it one day so I can handle it comfortably....but it intimidates me as a reading deck...Ive learned on the RWS and even dabble in TdM...but the Thoth is the "biggie" that I have not yet the courage to approach..

So those of you who love this deck, talk to me :) :)
"Not all those who wander are lost." - J.R.R. Tolkien

Portia

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 05:18:24 PM »
The Thoth is so beautiful, deep, and evocative. I am not a Thoth expert by any stretch of the imagination but I m fascinated by it, too.

I think you can enjoy the Thoth just as is, so to speak. You can certainly learn the esoteric, mythological, mystical, and Golden Dawn influences that surround the deck, but I don't think you have to. The images can speak for themselves. I think it's a deck that will grow with you as you grow and that will meet you where you are.

It was M.M. Meleen's Rosetta Tarot that helped me peel away at some of the impenetrable Thoth layers and made it feel less daunting. After working with the Rosetta, I picked up a Thoth deck, and I'm so glad I did.

Wonderful deck. I hope to get to know it more, too.

Delizt

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 05:45:21 PM »
the impenetrable Thoth layers

That's what I feel when I look at it!! But I know someday it will start to speak to me :)
"Not all those who wander are lost." - J.R.R. Tolkien

Page of Ghosts

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 06:01:45 PM »
I felt the same way, that the Thoth was The Big Guy, a very intense and deep deck that I'd have to be a tarot master to try out somewhere far away in a distant future. But I own a copy of it now and while I haven't tried any readings with it, it's not that scary. Only thing that's scary is the bad & floppy cardstock *dreams of acquiring a better printing* that I'm not too impressed with. And I wish I'd gotten the big size to better see the art!

I like that the majors feel very Major, very big and cosmic somehow. The minors a pip-ish but not excactly, I've already made some stories about them based on the keyword and imagery. I think the 4 of pents looks like a fortress and is called Power, the next one looks like there is coming lava towards a similar fortress and the keyword is Worry - I would very much worry about that lava if I lived in the fortress!

I own the Lon Milo book that I've just started reading in and it seems decent for a newbie if you wanna dip into the astrological, kabbalistic and Golden Dawn stuff. Crowleys own book is really advanced and complicated if you don't already know a lot of that stuff. But if you don't I'm sure it can work wonderfully as a regular reading deck. Many people use it like that, so Lon Milo says so I trust him ;D A lot of cards are similar to the RWS but many are very different in both meaning and image so I know I need to pay attention to that and not just think in RWS terms since I'm more used to that system.

Portia

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 06:29:46 PM »
I have the Milo book, and I've read it twice, but I found it difficult to connect with the material. I've only read excerpts from the actual "Book of Thoth." The language is poetical, even though I sometimes haven't the faintest idea what Crowley was talking about!

The Ian Daniels book "Phantasmagoria" that accompanies "Tarot of the Vampyres" is loosely Thoth based. (Cover your eyes and ears, Thothy scholars!) I love this book to pieces. Beautifully written and actually quite "thinky."

Maybe someday I'll delve more deeply into Thoth esoterica, but for now I'm just enjoying the images and letting the energy of the deck speak to me.

It definitely has a lot to say.

Page of Ghosts

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 10:43:10 AM »
I'm curious to see if any of it sticks when I get that far in the book, because so far what I've read in the Medieval Scapini book about the sephiroth and astrology just flies over my head. I read it but I don't understand that much. Kinda like someone is shouting at me from behind a wall of water. That book is just a shallow overview of it though... still I wonder if I'd be better off taking notes instead of just reading. That way at least I know I'm making an effort!

fyreflye

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 07:49:21 PM »
You can't really use the Thoth deck in the way it's meant to be used without engaging in the study of Alchemy, Astrology, the Western Magical Tradition (especially the Golden Dawn), Kabalah, numerology and much more.  In other words, it's not just a deck it's a lifestyle  :)

Read the book by Lon Milo Duquette http://tinyurl.com/ya5xzlqf and see if it interests you.  Try doing readings using the book and the cards.  If it continues to interest you read (carefully) Aleister Crowley's Book of Thoth http://tinyurl.com/y735we6s
If you're not interested in doing that get The Tarot Handbook by Angeles Arrien http://tinyurl.com/y99srlyx which takes a simpler and non Crowley approach to the deck.  See if you would prefer to use that approach.
Once you've decided what you want to do come back here for advice and recommendations. Meanwhile, keep playing with the cards.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:14:33 PM by fyreflye »
-fyreflye

Page of Ghosts

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 03:41:05 PM »
I'm curious to see if any of it sticks when I get that far in the book, because so far what I've read in the Medieval Scapini book about the sephiroth and astrology just flies over my head. I read it but I don't understand that much. Kinda like someone is shouting at me from behind a wall of water. That book is just a shallow overview of it though... still I wonder if I'd be better off taking notes instead of just reading. That way at least I know I'm making an effort!

Ok I am at the part where he writes about Kabbalah and the Tree of Life and how we humans are the princess... and I understand it! It makes sense! I am very happy and it seems managable to actually learn some of this stuff :D

fyreflye

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 01:46:59 AM »
Essential Thoth Tarot/Aleister Crowley Reading List

Here's a little something to keep y'all busy learnin'

Book of Thoth - Crowley, A.
The Thoth Companion - Michael Snuffin
Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot - Lon Milo DuQuette
Keywords for the Crowley Tarot - Hajo Banzhaf and Brigitte Theler
The Crowley Tarot: The Handbook of the Cards - Hajo Banzhaf and Akron

Fortune's Wheelhouse Podcast

Qabalistic Tarot - Robert Wang
Chicken Qabalah - DuQuette, L.M.
Magick Without Tears - Crowley, A.
Liber AL vel Legis aka The Book of the Law
Liber 777 - does anyone have a link for download? I can't find a complete one.
Tarot And the Magus - Hughes-Barlow, P.

Initiation in the Aeon of the Child, J. Daniel Gunther
Qabalah A Magical Primer
Magick in Theory and Practice prt iiii (book 4), Aleister Crowley
Enochian Magick in Theory, Frater Yechidah.

Liber Theta (Thelemic reconstitution of Liber T) - College of Thelema/Jim Eshelman (free download)
Tarot Divination (excerpted from the Equinox Vol. 1, No. 8 by Weiser in 1976) - Aleister Crowley



The Thoth Tarot, Astrology, & Other Selelcted Writings - Phyllis Seckler (Soror Meral).

The Angel and the Abyss - J. Daniel Gunther.

The Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages - Paul Foster Case.
-fyreflye

Trogon

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2017, 08:53:10 AM »
I purchased the Röhrig Tarot before I got the Thoth (the Röhrig is based on the Thoth), and this gave me a gentle introduction to Crowley's deck. When I did get the Thoth Tarot, it wasn't quite as intimidating. I have found that it is fairly easy to read with ... but I'm sure that Mr. Crowley turns over in his grave every time I do a reading. For me, most of the cards fit in fairly well with the RWS meanings, and the ones that don't, you have the clue of the key-word to guide you in the proper direction. It seems there are more similarities than there are differences. We know, of course, that Waite changed the numbers for Strength and Justice for his own reasons (which I don't think he ever revealed), but the meanings of the cards are still, essentially, the same.

As I said, I'm sure that Crowley and probably Waite are spinning in their respective final resting places because of me saying this. And, I'm sure that several Thoth scholars who read this are bristling by now as well. But, this is my personal experience with the deck. The good thing about all of this is that having learned the way I did opened my mind to other Thoth-based decks such as the Haindl and others.

I do have Crowley's book. It is very deep and it seems that a fair bit of it is meant to only be understood after you have mastered other things. One of these days I'll get another book ... one that simplifies things a bit perhaps. As such, I really appreciate all of the suggestions that have been made.

I was lucky in that I was able to pick up one of the last copies that a shop in Sedona had, of the Swiss published large-size deck in the blue box. It's an excellent deck. The imagery of the Thoth is beautiful and has great depth. Get in there and use it ... I think you'll be surprised at how it works with your intuition.
The bird also known as "Trogon" on AT

"A famous person once said; 'you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time' ... but, as I (an even more famous person) say; 'if you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like!'"
 [Max Headroom]

fyreflye

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2017, 12:37:47 PM »
Both Waite and Crowley were members of the Golden Dawn, where they first learned Tarot from Book T, so it's not surprising that their cards reflect similar meanings.  If you want to use
RWS card descriptions for the Thoth I'm sure you could find useful answers as to whether someone's estranged boyfriend will come back or whether you'll get that job you want - typical questions asked by clients.  But you'll be missing something.  A Big something.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:18:13 PM by fyreflye »
-fyreflye

Trogon

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 11:17:31 PM »
Both Waite and Crowley were members of the Golden Dawn, where they first learned Tarot from Book T, so it's not surprising that their cards reflect similar meanings.  If you want to use
RWS card descriptions for the Thoth I'm sure you could find useful answers as to whether someone's estranged boyfriend will come back or whether you'll get that job you want - typical questions asked by clients.  But you'll be missing something.  A Big something.

I know you're right about missing things with the Thoth. It is much deeper than what I've done with it so far and I've brushed up against that depth a few times now. It is intriguing when you're doing a self-reading with the Thoth and suddenly catch a glimpse of something far beyond what you were doing. That is why I did get "The Book of Thoth" and will be delving much deeper. In the meantime ... I've got a bit of personal work to do before I get there. ;)
The bird also known as "Trogon" on AT

"A famous person once said; 'you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time' ... but, as I (an even more famous person) say; 'if you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like!'"
 [Max Headroom]

foolMoon

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 12:02:59 PM »
It is possible to use Thoth Tarot intuitively without any knowledge of the Esoteric knowledge for certain type of questions. However, reading up some esoteric books on Qabbalah, Tree of Life,  Magick and Astrology can expand and deepen the Thoth Tarot scope into the unknown world :)

foolMoon

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 06:39:20 PM »
Banzhaf's Thoth Tarot books are good for divinational studies. Also Snuffin's Thoth Companion is a good book to add as well.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 03:04:07 AM by foolMoon »

pacificwaters

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Re: Talk to me about the Thoth
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 10:16:24 AM »
It is possible to use Thoth Tarot intuitively without any knowledge of the Esoteric knowledge for certain type of questions. However, reading up some esoteric books on Qabbalah, Tree of Life,  Magick and Astrology can expand and deepen the Thoth Tarot scope into the unknown world :)

I doubt if the actual depth of the Thoth would be explored then. I tried myself without much success so started exploring astrology and kabbalah to understand Thoth better. However I am sure stalwarts here might have a better take
The wind of change blows straight, into the face of time - Scorpions

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